Enlighten Me

Eddie Sanchez:
This is Eddie Sanchez.

Rodney Crouther:
This is Rodney Crouther.

Eddie Sanchez:
And you are now listening to Enlighten Me.
So, Rodney, it's February.

Rodney Crouther:
Yes, it is.

Eddie Sanchez:
How was your Valentine's Day?

Rodney Crouther:
It was good. My wife and I have been together for a long time, so I just made dinner at home, flowers, chocolate covered strawberries. Pretty low-key, we've done this before, so.

Eddie Sanchez:
Yeah, I think that's a fair Valentine's Day.

Rodney Crouther:
Yeah, we're definitely in the like food is our love language kind of couples, but it's easy to get caught up in it. It's still fun.

Eddie Sanchez:
Yeah, yeah, it is. Even whether you're in a new relationship or an old relationship, it's always—

Rodney Crouther:
Oh yeah, there's definitely a lot more pressure when you're in a new relationship, though. I do remember that.

Eddie Sanchez:
Talking about being in new relationships, the reason why this particular episode topic came out was because of one of our co-workers, one of our peers talking about relationships and dating app usage.

Rodney Crouther:
Yeah, dating games change. Both you and I are old married guys, talking, but we work here at the university, we work with a lot of younger people and student interns and they're in a whole different world.

Eddie Sanchez:
One thing that changed completely from our time was the use of dating apps, right? Those things really didn't exist, and online dating has kind of been a thing for a while, but.

Rodney Crouther:
Yeah, it feels like it's everywhere.

Eddie Sanchez:
Yeah, yeah, I feel like, but there's always been even personals in the newspaper.

Rodney Crouther:
Oh, exactly.

Eddie Sanchez:
So there's been opportunities for people to connect outside, I guess, of the third space, organic way.

Rodney Crouther:
Oh OK, definitely. I definitely have friends who have long-term relationships, marriages that started with a newspaper.

Eddie Sanchez:
Oh, that's interesting.

Rodney Crouther:
Yeah, newspaper personal ads.

Eddie Sanchez:
I don't know if I've met anybody in that boat, but that's kind of cool that you mentioned that, just because, I don't know, it just never... I remember seeing them back in the day, but I mean—

Rodney Crouther:
I'm a little older than you. Yeah, just tell everybody that again, yeah.

Eddie Sanchez:
But I never knew anybody who had used them. But with that being said, Rodney, we decided to investigate a little bit more. I decided to investigate a little bit more into dating app usage and maybe what some of the trends are in current times and whether or not people, younger individuals are using them as much as they had been five years ago, six years ago.

Rodney Crouther:
I am curious about the topic, just as a general social trend, because you and I aren't really in that specific dating space anymore.

Eddie Sanchez:
Yeah, exactly, and even though we aren't necessarily using these apps, there's still so much tied around it from social media that I think we probably both use social media to a certain degree.

Rodney Crouther:
Absolutely, yeah.

Eddie Sanchez:
I mean, AI is affecting every aspect of our lives nowadays.

Rodney Crouther:
Yeah, I use My H-E-B app when I'm shopping for groceries. Apps are definitely part of my life, even if it's not Bumble or Tinder or something.

Eddie Sanchez:
Yeah, and I mean, there's even the gamification of apps, which the interview actually spoke on. Just because we're not necessarily using dating apps doesn't mean that we still aren't affected by the app world, I suppose.

Rodney Crouther:
Great. So, who'd you find to talk to who could give us more insight into the dating app world?

Jessica L. James:
My name is Jessica L. James, I'm an associate professor of instruction from the School of Journalism and Mass Communication.

Eddie Sanchez:
Was there anything specific that drew your interest into researching online dating?

Jessica L. James:
When I was in graduate school, the iPhone apps and how they were applied to our lives really did start spiking. For me personally, I wasn't necessarily sure how to use apps or what they were, or even getting Uber and things like that. San Marcos only had ride-share maybe 2011, 2012, and I was new in town. I was from Cleveland, Ohio, I didn't know anybody in Texas, and I wanted to explore opportunities to at least meet people. And Tinder really did afford me the opportunity at least to try to meet new guys, new friends. Just connect with people in my proximity because if there's one thing I learned about Central Texas, it's that traffic sucked and I did not want to go to Austin or San Antonio and drive. So, I applied a practical resource for meeting people in my area.

Eddie Sanchez:
So, I feel as if online dating or connecting with people online didn't necessarily start with dating apps like Tinder or Bumble or any of those other ones, I imagine that there was a progression from decades back to this point. And I'm curious how if you had an opportunity in your studies to see that progression or to learn anything about it.

Jessica L. James:
People have a tendency to perceive media as news, but media is actually information, right? So as far as what you can research and what you can study in our particular field, it's extremely comprehensive. It's a broad focus area where you can apply any type of theory to any type of niche topic, for example. And so when I was in graduate school taking theories, I really enjoyed the different types of theoretical approaches for understanding media psychology, right? Why and how people use different tools, right? How the information affects us, how the information affects others, all those really big grandiose questions researchers have.
And we started talking about one particular theory I found interesting called uses and gratifications. And that is a media theory that essentially looks at, people use media because they are gratified from how they're getting it, or excuse me, what they're getting from it. So in that regard, that particular theory piqued my interest to see, I wonder why people actually use online dating? What is the collective? I mean, I know how I use it, but I wonder if there's any effects, right? Are we in some way or another shortchanging ourselves, or is it just a natural extension of matchmaking, right? People's parents having a matchmaker to connect them, really just an extension of the, I guess you could say utilities we already had in place. So, I was pretty curious about that from a personal, young researcher perspective.

Rodney Crouther:
Beyond just meeting people, did her research turn up anything interesting about how dating apps really operate to get people to connect?

Jessica L. James:
Sure, yeah. I would say my personal interest level was really looking at the gamified experience of a lot of applications. And online dating is interesting because in psychology they have this ideology where games are essentially queuing you to do something even if you don't realize it.

Rodney Crouther:
So she's saying the apps are literally turning dating into kind of a game.

Eddie Sanchez:
I'd say so, and even more social interactions, not even just dating.

Jessica L. James:
So when you start talking about design implications of mobile applications, they're intentionally designed to do something, to make you do something, consciously of it or not. And so when I was doing my research, I found that people generally speaking are intrinsically motivated and extrinsically motivated to do certain things.
Now, when you're using an application, for example, you are in a game-like experience. Going to the grocery, store at the gym, right? You're getting rewards, you're getting points, you're doing things unconsciously, but the game, the app is kind of programming you to get something out of it, right? Now with online dating, for example, on Tinder, when you use different types of technologies, you're searching for it, you're playing with it, it kind of changes your attitude or feeling about it. And you're not even really conscious that it's doing it because we respond to technology, technology responds to us, right? It's kind of a two-way street, and that's kind of looking at what uses and gratification speaks to you, as far as the why and how a person uses it. So, it really does beg the question, are we telling the technology what to do or is the technology telling us what to do? Right? So it's really curious.
And with the online dating portion, I found that based on my research, a lot of people, generally speaking, use it with the intentions of casual sex, right? And that was a very limited study based on the demographic here at Texas State, we had male students as well. But we also had individuals using it, for women, for example, to find a serious partner. Other people were using it to build friendships or find commonalities within their fellow Bobcats or their fellow person here. So yeah, it really is just contingent on the person and how you want to use it, but I do think it is of greater research interest to determine if it does have more to do with design and less to do with intent.

Eddie Sanchez:
So, are we teaching the tech or is the tech teaching us?

Jessica L. James:
No, I think it's, we're having a conversation with ourselves, right? The human psyche is interesting. A lot of media research, a lot of media scholars says technology is an extension of ourselves. Right? How we hammer is based on how a hammer works, right? We have the idea to use it, we want to hammer. A tool helps us achieve that objective. So, if you're thinking of in that way or another, is the technology telling us what to do or are we telling the technology what to do? You have to ask yourself, well, what is technology then, right?
And so it's kind of cool in the meta world, I guess you could say, to think of yourself as kind of a big computer if you will, maybe. Right? And if I have intentions of using Tinder, for example, to achieve a certain task, I will find maybe, maybe not, individuals who are connected with me or I guess you could say looking for the same things as me, right? Because that's kind of how you have to operate with these things. So, big questions.

Rodney Crouther:
So what really got people really hyper engaged with dating apps?

Jessica L. James:
That has a lot to do with our motivation to use the technology, once again. Why do people watch the news? To be informed. Why do people play games? To be entertained. Why do people want to date? Because they want to find love, they want to procreate.
When I was talking earlier about intrinsic motivation, that is essentially saying we are motivated based on our ability to eat, have shelter, and then have sex. Pretty much it, we have to do that or we die. Extrinsic motivations, the reason we do things, there's some type of praise or reward. I don't want to say that the internet kind of caters, at least online dating, to some sexualized kind of market presentation of profiles and things like that. But ultimately speaking, I mean, we're visual creatures, right? And so when you are necessarily diluting the experience of finding love or finding romance, it's going to happen.
I mean, I think it's in our nature as a species, if there's an opportunity for something to be exploited, we will exploit it, right? And that's not any fault of ours, that's just trial and error. That's how we learn or resolve mistakes we've made, we use something in a way that it wasn't conceived and then we refine it or improve it. And online dating is no different. You get out of it what you want to get out of it, but again, the fact that we're even using it, does it change our outlook or attitude, or even people's optimism regarding finding romance, right? All those options, everything's extremely a la carte. It's like test driving a car, if I don't like it, eh, I'll get a new car. You're scrolling, you're swiping, it really does kind of, I guess, not make it shallow per se, but there are questions regarding cheapening the experience.

Rodney Crouther:
That's an interesting perspective to put on it too. I guess every change in technology in society changes how people interact and connect with each other. And the concept of a la carte dating kind of fits the way we get more choices with everything in our lives these days.

Eddie Sanchez:
Feels very consumerism.

Rodney Crouther:
Yeah, I can see that being a problem for people dating too. More options it can give you, too many choice overload.

Eddie Sanchez:
For our average listener who might not know what gamification means, could you explain that and how it relates to online apps or the usage of online apps?

Jessica L. James:
Yeah, absolutely. So, gamification is a approach to media psychology, which essentially says experiences are intentionally presented as a game, which means that if we are gamify, like going to the grocery store or working out, it means that we're playing with the experience versus doing the experience. So, dating in a traditional sense would be an example of, I guess, executing it in a pre-gamified way. Right? Nobody went to the grocery store through an app, right? But it does kind of feel like you're playing with it with the icons, with the color, with the swipe. All that is kind of media, we call them heuristics, attributes of media interactivity, that how we use it, that is extremely gratifying to us as people. That's why things like swiping something with our finger is so not rewarding, but feels good. You want to be in control, it's like agency with the technology. So gamification is essentially taking an ordinary experience and presenting it in a game-like space.

Eddie Sanchez:
You had mentioned the usage of for instance, grocery apps and how they kind of provide a certain level of entertainment, so to speak. I would imagine that's also almost like a dopamine hit, essentially, right?

Jessica L. James:
It is, yes. That's the word I was looking for, a dopamine hit, a reward.

Rodney Crouther:
Yeah, dopamine hits, that's an interesting way to put it. Games definitely run off giving you that instant reward. I hadn't applied that, thinking about dating apps, does she have any research that explores how that really affects us, chemically?

Jessica L. James:
I have not studied what happens in the mind, that's a little beyond my pay grade and education level. But I do know that was a significant finding in my research, was how people, do they feel immediate connection or do they feel good using it? So when you get a match, that's like, hey, cool. Right? Again, the rewards are increased, right? The stakes are higher. Getting a match online or a match on Tinder is not just your buddy giving you a thumbs up on your photo, this is a person who given the circumstance might actually fall in love with you, or might want to have sex with you. Right? And that's again, different perspectives, different usage based on age and gender, but yeah, the stakes are higher. That's the extrinsic part of the reward because again, it's an exploitation of our human condition, commodified and presented in such a way where we are, I guess you could say attached or addicted or using it with some type of expectation to get something from it.

Eddie Sanchez:
Have you had a chance to do any research on how this affects the self-esteem of users?

Jessica L. James:
I have not, and self-esteem is hard. That's one of those broad topics where, what does it mean? Is your self-esteem based on looks? Is your self-esteem based on your career? Is your self-esteem based on your intellect? All these different types of questions about what self-esteem is. But personally, if I'm being 100% honest, I have used Tinder and I was oddly enough, a little attracted to this individual whose profile picture was a bucket of nachos.

Rodney Crouther:
Yeah, I can see being attracted to a bucket of nachos. That happens to me every day about lunch.

Jessica L. James:
Because I thought it was just so unconventional and kind of like thumb in your nose at the—

Eddie Sanchez:
A quirky way for someone to introduce themselves, yeah.

Jessica L. James:
Yeah, yeah, and especially because sometimes people are, they take a lot of time to curate their profile and select their pictures, and it becomes one of those deals where this guy's trying too hard, or this guy's way attractive, or she's single too? It's one of those questions where you start rummaging through all these insecurities that emerge, and I think that's what makes us, that diminishes our self-esteem because we compare ourselves. And that type of environment, as we know is never good. But that particular response exists on Instagram, and Facebook. Anybody with any type of social presence consciously or not, is going to start comparing themselves.

Eddie Sanchez:
The reason that this topic was brought up was because one of our younger co-workers, she was saying how her generation, which is I think she's probably early 20s still, are kind of starting to put down the apps. Is that a trend that you have seen in your studies or are we trending towards less usage or is it pretty much balanced out at this point? Is it continuing to grow? I don't know, what have you discovered?

Jessica L. James:
I think people are going to start using it for more practical means. I think you're right, it's probably reaching some type of balance. Young people pulling back on apps, it's probably a product of them just being inundated and exhausted in so many ways, right? How they use it, what they use it for.

Eddie Sanchez:
What would you tell students like, hey, this is how you should approach using apps, if at all possible?

Jessica L. James:
Do I need an app to work out to? Do I really? Realistically, do I need an app for that? Do I need an app to go grocery shopping? Do I need an app to order Subway? Yes, all very good questions. Do I think all that stuff is necessary? No. What is actually the reason why a person downloads the app? Is it for the perks, the benefits? Is it for finding love? Is it for getting sober? Right? It's almost like there's aisles, like we are literally shopping and using and putting things in our cart that we find useful. And sometimes those things don't make the cut.
Being present, being mindful, enjoying company, those are ways that we become closer. And that's the ironic part of all this, is the more connected we become through technology, the less connected we become with each other, is a big argument, right? We all want to be loved. We all want closeness and maybe to build a family, and if you're not getting some of those things from using online dating apps, you're going to start getting depressed and you're going to turn to alternate means to boost that dopamine, right? A match is a match, but actually finding a partner and sticking with that person. People meet their romantic life partners on dating apps. I'm not saying they're futile. I think for a lot of people they do exist and they work particularly well for older people.
Then when everybody tells you something is cool, people are going to do it. And that's another part of our conditioning, right? No, man, you got to look at this. Oh, that's really cool. These apps are awesome. No, they're not, not always, but we didn't know, right? You don't want to be the weirdo with a flip phone in 2025. I mean honestly, that is something, another trend we're seeing, though. We're seeing people revert back to—

Eddie Sanchez:
Yeah, traditional phones or the brick phones.

Jessica L. James:
I'm going to get my 2005 Razr out, I loved that phone. Yeah, that was a big deal back then. But again, very simple. I didn't have access to the internet. I enjoy it, and I don't want to sound like an old person, but I think we're starting to get to the point where we can appropriate these things based on, how are they best applied? How are they best used in our society, for what I need them for?

Eddie Sanchez:
Rodney, the one thing that I will say is I appreciate not having the opportunity to use these dating apps, because it just seems like the pressure of using them and how much it can affect you psychologically and trying... I have plenty to deal with on a day-to-day basis.

Rodney Crouther:
Yeah, I'm grateful, yeah, that I was kind of out of the dating pool by the time app dating became a thing, because it's just like, it was complex enough already. And this seems like a whole nother layer.

Eddie Sanchez:
Yeah, the world is already complicated enough, right? I don't need to add anything else to it.

Rodney Crouther:
Yeah, I'm OK being the old guy in this conversation. But I do hear our great student interns in the office and just students on campus. I mean, we work around a lot of people much younger than us, so I do wonder what their perspective is on it because they're living this.

Eddie Sanchez:
So, we had that same question, Rodney. And what we decided to do was send out two of our interns to actually have some conversations with the student body, with our Bobcats and this is what they had to say.

AnaBelle:
Check one, two. So, do you use... Let me try that again. So first off, do you use dating apps?

Speaker 5:
Yes.

AnaBelle:
So do you use dating apps?

Speaker 6:
I do not.

Speaker 7:
Personally, me, no.

Speaker 8:
I do.

Speaker 9:
Yes, I do.

Speaker 10:
I do not.

Speaker 11:
No, I've never used one, never tried it out, really.

Speaker 12:
I used it for about a week.

AnaBelle:
OK. What are your thoughts on them? Does it make it harder or easier to find a relationship?

Speaker 12:
I think it makes it a little harder. You feel me? I feel like you don't really know the person for real, because all you've seen is what they're trying to showing you. And some people may lie and stuff like that or catfish, so it's kind of difficult.

AnaBelle:
And do you think they make it harder or easier to find a relationship?

Speaker 6:
It's right in the middle. You're not really going to find a relationship on a dating app, but you can find friends. Definitely find friends, a lot.

Speaker 5:
In my opinion, I feel, well, I like to use my voice when I talk to people instead of using the dating apps. I feel like it's better to actually get to talk to somebody and get to really know who they are instead of see a version of them online.

AnaBelle:
So, do you use dating apps?

Speaker 13:
I used it once.

AnaBelle:
OK, and do you think they make it harder or easier for people to find relationships?

Speaker 13:
I think it's easier to find relationships that won't last.

AnaBelle:
So, what are your thoughts on if they make it easier or harder to find relationships?

Speaker 14:
I think it's easier to find somebody, but I don't think it's authentic and I don't think it lasts, personally. That's just me personally, I don't judge them. So, to each their own.

Speaker 15:
Well, personally I don't take it serious, so I think it's harder because you never know if somebody's actually looking for something or just one day, one night.

AnaBelle:
So do you use dating apps?

Speaker 16:
No, ma'am.

AnaBelle:
And what are your thoughts on if it makes it harder or easier to find relationships?

Speaker 16:
I mean, personally I wouldn't know because I don't use dating apps. I say you should go, if you see something you like in person, you go shoot at it. That's the type of guy I am. So, yeah.

AnaBelle:
Nice, thank you.

Speaker 16:
You're welcome.

Speaker 17:
It probably makes it easier for people who are not that social, probably.

Speaker 18:
I'd say easier. Yeah, I've had a good experience on them.

AnaBelle:
OK, dive into that a little bit. Why? Why versus real life?

Speaker 18:
I'd just say there's more people to get to and in San Marcos feel like it's really hard to talk to people in class nowadays. So on an online thing it's kind of easier to reach out and then kind of get the ball rolling to go on a date.

Speaker 19:
I think that it might make it harder, I think just because maybe there's such a over saturation of people and it's, I don't know, I think it's just hot or not, to be honest with you.

AnaBelle:
So, do you use dating apps?

Speaker 20:
I do not.

AnaBelle:
And what are your thoughts on if it makes it harder or easier to find relationships?

Speaker 20:
I think it makes it easier. I don't know. No, I think it makes it harder, actually. I don't like them. I don't like them.

AnaBelle:
Why don't you like them?

Speaker 20:
I don't have a reason, I just don't.

AnaBelle:
So first of all, do you use dating apps?

Speaker 21:
No.

AnaBelle:
And now, do you think it makes it harder or easier to find relationships?

Speaker 21:
I just feel like dating apps are kind of useless. Let's bring back third spaces where we can all meet people in person and get to see them for who they really are, instead of having to deal with people that like to ghost and leave you on read, or just waste your time. So, that's my thoughts on dating apps.

AnaBelle:
Love, love that so much.

Speaker 22:
Definitely harder because you don't really find that authenticity in someone. You really just want to find that connection in somebody. And through dating apps, it's kind of like a middle ground that just says, "I'm wanting to take it serious, but also I'm kind of not." And for someone like me, who's a couple years away from having his sights on marriage and having children and everything like that, you want to find that one person that you can unconditionally love and trust. And it's so hard to do that with dating apps nowadays.

AnaBelle:
So, do you use dating apps?

Speaker 23:
No, I don't. My goal is to meet my significant other organically.

AnaBelle:
What are your thoughts on if it makes it easier or harder to find relationships with dating apps?

Speaker 24:
I think it might be harder, honestly.

AnaBelle:
What are some pros and cons of being on dating apps?

Speaker 25:
I guess a pro is meeting a lot of people, and cons is like the guys are weird. That's a con.

AnaBelle:
What are the pros and cons? What kind of keeps you on it?

Speaker 26:
Entertainment. Just to see what people think or say. The cons are, there are a lot of people that are just like, come over for the night or something, so.

AnaBelle:
Are there any pros to it?

Speaker 27:
Yeah, I mean, getting mutuals, maybe reaching out and finding someone who has a similar style to you, that could be a pro, I suppose.

AnaBelle:
Cool, well thank you so much.

Eddie Sanchez:
All right, so thank you guys for being here with me today. Can you just introduce yourself real quick?

AnaBelle:
This is AnaBelle here, I'm a senior and an intern here with marketing.

Tyson Taylor:
Yeah, I'm Tyson Taylor, also a senior here.

Eddie Sanchez:
So, we sent you all out to talk with some of the students, just to kind of get a little bit of insight. What did you guys learn from that experience? What were some of the results? What did the students tell you? And how did you feel about what you heard from them?

AnaBelle:
Well, I can tell you. So the questions we asked them were, first of all, do you use dating apps? And then we followed it up no matter what their answer was with, do you think it makes it harder or easier to find relationships? And we were talking a little bit, I don't know that everyone was super honest. It seemed, I think a lot of people felt very uncomfortable, it seemed like, with the question. And I think that goes to show, I think people were judging themselves based off if they did use them or not. Did you pick up on that Tyson?

Tyson Taylor:
Absolutely, and I think it kind of matched with the person we were interviewing. I don't want to say I can read people's minds or their backgrounds and stuff, but I could kind of get a sense of, I have a strong feeling that that person would use, just because how social they were. But the more introverted people, the people that didn't seem like they were as active in the dating scene, I could be like, OK, I can see that you don't really have an interest in dating apps. But yeah, I don't know, maybe people are scared they're going to get caught up from, maybe they have a girlfriend or a boyfriend. They're like, oh actually, you're on dating apps, so.

Eddie Sanchez:
I'm curious, what's the general feeling for y'all's generation on dating apps, would you say?

Tyson Taylor:
I would say there's kind of a stigma around using dating apps. I feel like it's kind of looked down upon. I don't know, I feel like it kind of has to go along with the post-pandemic, just how behavior has changed within our generation, I would say. People are a lot less likely to go up to someone, introduce themselves, start a conversation. There's kind of a barrier or a wall when communicating in person with people you don't know, and I feel like that barrier is less prevalent online dating apps. I mean, if they don't respond, it's not the end of the world, but I feel like people are a lot less scared to get turned down, shut down on dating apps.

Rodney Crouther:
That's another angle I hadn't considered. Our student population generation is the one that their high school, a key socially developmental stage was really disrupted by the pandemic.

AnaBelle:
I think any conversations I've had with friends where we're being really open and we're talking about how we really feel about them, especially my guy friends have really told me it hurts their pride, it hurts their ego, and you deal with rejection a lot. And it doesn't matter, I would say it doesn't matter who you are, what you look like, if you're a guy or a girl, whatever, I think you're going to deal with a lot of rejection when you're in a space like that.
And it also, from my own experience, because I tried out dating apps for a short period of time. I wasn't crazy about it, so I don't do it anymore, but when I was on there I realized, this is not a safe space. That's at least how I felt. And it's like, I know I cannot be my most vulnerable authentic self here because it's going to really hurt because nobody else is doing that. So, maybe that played into that stigma of maybe if people are aware of, I'm not necessarily even able to be my real self on here, then maybe they're not super proud of talking about it. There was definitely a tone that was really interesting that I think we were picking up on.

Eddie Sanchez:
So I'm just curious how you all's friends are using these apps nowadays? I mean, is it less, is it more, what do you guys see?

Tyson Taylor:
All right, I'm going to be completely honest, with my friends that are single, they are using dating apps. Some of them even have memberships. They'll pay to have more swipes or have more conversations with people. And if I'm being completely honest, yes, they're called dating apps, but I don't think they're on there looking to date, if y'all catch what I'm saying. They're just looking for quick little exchanges. The possibility of finding an actual relationship is, I wouldn't say very likely. It's like, yeah, my friends are definitely still on—

Eddie Sanchez:
But to your point, it isn't necessarily for long-term romantic relationships.

Tyson Taylor:
Absolutely.

AnaBelle:
So, I want to say, I know lots of different people, guys and girls who use dating apps for that short term. I'm talking about hookup culture. It's short term, it's they're not looking for anything serious, and that's why it works for them because their goals are aligning with what it feels like the apps are oftentimes... It's just all matching up. So, we're talking about short-term stuff. But freshman and sophomore year, I would say almost everybody that I knew was on either Hinge or Tinder or Bumble, those three probably. But now that I'm a senior, most of my friends are actually in relationships, like long-term relationships, but I don't know that many people on dating apps anymore.

Rodney Crouther:
So if people aren't using them to date and form long-term relationships as much, I wonder if people are using them just to make other kinds of social connections?

AnaBelle:
OK, that's my whole life, is me trying that kind of building connection and friendships and stuff. I have found that that doesn't work on dating apps. It's almost like you're betraying this. Why are you trying to make this platonic? How dare you, I'm insulted. It really hurts people's egos when you're like, oh my god, this was supposed to be platonic.

Rodney Crouther:
Wow, wow, that's interesting.

AnaBelle:
Yeah, and what about you, Tyson?

Tyson Taylor:
I would completely agree. I feel like if you're trying to find communities or little niches, whereas stuff like anime or sports or music, I think you would honestly have a better chance going on Reddit or something to find those. But the dating apps, I think people are going to be like, yeah, you're not on the right platform looking to find other people who anime and stuff like that. You'll probably get left undelivered, read.

AnaBelle:
Isn't there a friendship setting? I feel like some of them have some setting.

Eddie Sanchez:
I've actually never used the dating app, so I don't... I just know on Tinder you swipe. I don't know necessarily how it looks. I know of them, but I've never used them. Would you guys say that you have any friends that have created these online personas to really fit better into these apps?

Tyson Taylor:
I had a friend during freshman, sophomore year, that was almost known on campus as, I'm going to say Tinder Boy. Girls would come up and be like—

AnaBelle:
We might be talking about the same guy.

Tyson Taylor:
... I've seen you on... I'd be out at Chick-fil-A and you see multiple girls coming up, I've seen you on Tinder. And it was almost like this dude's personality, he was just known for being on Tinder hitting on girls.
And to speak on your last question, I had a point I wanted to bring up. I feel like a lot of people, I want to say men and female, are just looking for attention. They're looking for some type of gratification. So yeah, they might not even be looking for short term, long term, anything. They just want attention.

Eddie Sanchez:
They just want that immediate little dopamine hit.

Tyson Taylor:
Yeah, absolutely.

Eddie Sanchez:
Somebody likes me, I'm good for the day.

Tyson Taylor:
Absolutely. I feel good about myself, definitely. But also I would definitely say, I would say honestly on the more so the guy side that guys are getting more addicted to just the instant, because if we're being honest, guys don't get as much compliments and gratification as females do in my opinion.

AnaBelle:
I mean, it's interesting you're bringing that up because there's been a lot of talk about the male loneliness epidemic and I don't know if you've been hearing about that.

Tyson Taylor:
Mm-hmm.

AnaBelle:
But that's definitely interesting if you're saying that's your experience, talking to your different guy friends and stuff.

Eddie Sanchez:
When I was talking with Dr. Jessie James, one thing that she brought up was whether or not we were talking about algorithms and how these apps affect the human psyche to a certain degree. A question she had essentially was, do you think that our behaviors are affecting the apps and the algorithms, or is it vice versa where the algorithms are affecting our psychology and the way we approach relationships and life and everything? What do you guys, do you think it's a... Does that make sense?

Tyson Taylor:
I think the apps are personally messing, I've never used the app so I don't want to say personally I'm getting affected, but just thinking about how dating apps are. If you're just continuously swiping through and through and through, I feel like it's kind of like, I don't want to say dehumanizing people, but it's kind of like you're literally just looking at their appearance. If that's not my type, swipe. It's almost like a T-shirt, you're going clothes shopping. I don't like this shirt. What else y'all got? What else y'all got? And it kind of takes away from the personality of people, actually making meaningful relationships, connections, finding similarities. Yeah, and it's just straight appearance.

AnaBelle:
I think in the age that we're in right now with AI and the direction that things are moving, I think that people are craving authenticity and I think we're craving some kind of grounded-ness. We need something to be grounded in. And from my experience and talking to my friends who use dating apps, I think that when we stop being empathetic to other people, we stop being empathetic to ourselves. And even just talking with specifically guy friends who are on these dating apps, I would start to be more critical of myself because I'm like, oh, he just rejected her because of this thing. Oh, he just rejected... And it gets in your head. And I think we start treating ourselves that way a little bit. And then next thing we know, we're all in this level of just being really, really shallow and I think it's too important of a time right now to lean in that direction.
So to answer your question, I do think that the apps are influencing us and our psychology and how we're working, but I also, now that talking about algorithms and back to AI, I'm sure that we're just giving it so much data. And I know my friend, I have a friend who pays for a subscription and she was telling me about how they'll hold, these are your best matches and if you pay for whatever, then you'll get them. And the fact that it's learning what we like and what we don't like, it's definitely, we're just feeding a data. That's all it is.

Rodney Crouther:
I think AnaBelle's hitting on a really key point there, that there is a business side to the dating apps that doesn't have anything to do with any users' personal fulfillment or happiness.

Eddie Sanchez:
So, one of the other questions you guys asked students was whether or not dating apps actually make it any easier or harder to develop relationships. I'm curious, what did you guys find out about that?

AnaBelle:
So, I'm trying to think through kind of individually, because there were a few people who said, "Oh, I think it makes it easier." One person said for people who are too shy to talk to people in real life, this might get the ball rolling. I think that's a great point. I think they said it's easier to find people who have things in common. And I think that's, I mean, that's cool if you think about 50 years ago, they didn't have anything like this and now we're like, OK, I can note instantly if we're compatible when it comes to this certain criteria. But honestly, most of the people said it's the same thing we've been saying of if you want short-term, it's dating apps. If you're looking for long-term, that might not be the best solution.

Eddie Sanchez:
So, one last question for you guys. What is something that you learned about yourself or even that you learned about the greater community, going out and doing this interview with students?

AnaBelle:
Yeah, I want to think for a second.

Tyson Taylor:
OK, I can go. Honestly, I just wish our generation, Gen Z would just put the phones down. I think we're so strung out. Attention spans are so short. We're getting so much dopamine from whether it's TikTok or YouTube or the shows, like Love Island and all those shows. Let's just put the phones down.
In my ideal world, we're all talking to each other. If you see someone you like, you're going to go up to them, approach them, introduce yourself, try to get to know them, go deeper than surface level. I think in today's society, especially our generation, everything's just super surface level. Whether unless you're actually in a long-term relationship with the person, but yeah, let's just put the phones down, let's reset our dopamine, and let's start forming actual relationships with others, whether it's platonic or not, so.

AnaBelle:
Yeah, I think it's funny because this is something I was thinking about this week and it really paired well with this assignment of interviewing people. And it's I think a lot of times we reserve love for romantic connections or romantic potential partners. And I think if we can kind of check in with ourselves and make sure that we're meeting our own needs and we're validating ourselves and we're telling ourselves, you are enough, you're good, and we're going to keep going forward, and then we build out those connections with our community and with our families.
Check in with your mama, check in with your sister, you can give love too. And I think often on these apps, it's easy to get into looking for love. And I think sometimes just checking in and being like, I can also give validation. I can buy flowers for my gal over here. It doesn't always have to be romantic love. Or I can encourage my co-worker like, Tyson, you're killing it. Your camera angle's amazing.

Tyson Taylor:
You are too.

AnaBelle:
Yeah, I feel like that can sometimes just make us reground us, and get us [inaudible 00:38:55].

Eddie Sanchez:
Yeah, yeah, that makes sense. Maybe sharing love doesn't necessarily have to be romantic love or anything of that nature. Well, you guys are very insightful. I was pleasantly pleased to hear what you all learned and just kind of your own personal opinion on this topic. So, thank you guys for coming and having this conversation with me.

AnaBelle:
Thank you, yeah.

Tyson Taylor:
Thank you for having us.

Eddie Sanchez:
So Rodney, after having these conversations with Jessie and Tyson and AnaBelle, even though the overarching theme was online dating, I feel as if especially talking to our students, that dating apps really speak to the human condition and the human experience. Right? And even though it's in the modern era, there's just so many different facets about it that can still relate to what we've been experiencing as humans since time beginning. And I think that was probably the most interesting aspect for me.

Rodney Crouther:
You can see from especially the student responses and what our interns had to say, that it's not like a static thing that this dating is online now, dating is app-based now. In fact, it seems to be driving people more toward in-person, offline experiences, and maybe even giving some younger people more appreciation for getting offline and just doing things face to face.

Eddie Sanchez:
Yeah, face to face. Yeah, it definitely feels as if... It was kind of positive and a nice thing to hear that it seemed as if both of our intern students, even though they're just a very, very small population, their perspective gave me a little bit of hope that we can start transitioning away from the online world just a bit.

Rodney Crouther:
Yeah, and it might still be a part of it, but it's not like that's the only option now, you have to be on an app to date. That's not the case at all.

Eddie Sanchez:
Or make human connections.

Rodney Crouther:
Yeah.

Eddie Sanchez:
So yeah, I was very happy to have spoken with everybody that—

Rodney Crouther:
Yeah, yeah, it was refreshing.

Eddie Sanchez:
Well, thank you for joining us in this episode of Enlighten Me.

Rodney Crouther:
We'll see you next month.

Eddie Sanchez:
Make sure to follow us on the social media platform of your choice at TXST. This podcast is a production of the Division of Marketing and Communication at Texas State University. Podcast appearing on the Texas State Podcast Network represent the views of the host and guest and not of Texas State University.